There is nothing better than being able to check off one of those bucket list experiences that you have been dreaming of for a really long time. This year, Melissa and I will be taking an African safari in Kenya to celebrate our 30th anniversary and a big birthday for myself. We wanted to do something really special to celebrate those occasions, so we decided to cross the safari off of our bucket list. cross the safari off of our bucket We've done a lot of planning list. to prepare for this trip, but we thought for the podcast we might help you shortcut that planning and bring an expert onto the show. This week we'll talk to Piper McKay from McKay Africa, whom we will use for our safari. So grab your olive green pants and khaki shirt as we head to Nairobi, Kenya to start this safari.
I'm Scott.
And I'm Melissa.
And we're the Sunshine Travelers. Our passion is travel and sharing our experiences with those who enjoyed as much as we do, or those who want to learn more about travel, or even those who just want to live vicariously through our travel stories. No matter where you fall along that journey, get ready to hear about our firsthand experiences as we visit some of the most interesting and amazing places on Earth.
So I normally take the lead on a lot of our trip planning, and if not the lead, then a lot of the details. But this trip was different, as Scott really wanted to be the one to plan out this celebration for our big anniversary. So I really let you work out all the details about like, you know, where we were going to decide to go and actually like which safari company we were going to go to because it's been over a year now since you started contacting people, looking at destinations, looking at specific, you know, camps, different reserves. I mean, there's actually a lot to going into when you plan a safari. Yeah. I
I mean, where do you go even? Do you go to South Africa? Do you go to Kenya? Do you go to Botswana? You know, there's tons of different even countries that you can go to to start your safari.
Yeah. And as we talk to people, like everybody had their own opinion, too, right? Based on where they've been and what they would recommend. So you really have to dig in and decide what the experience is that you want to have.
And then once you choose a country or kind of what it is that you're wanting to see, for we us, chose the Big Five. Then you have to pick a safari company. And so there's a ton of them out there. And this is kind of what we're going to talk to Piper about on the show today.
Yeah. So when we're visiting somewhere we like to new, interview an expert who can help us not prepare, only in terms of what we need to but also pack, someone who can help us dig into what we should expect and then help our drive our excitement for the trip and then give us any suggestions as well. So join us today as we interview Piper McKay from McKay Africa. We're joined today with Piper McKay and
today with Piper McKay and Piper, we're so glad to have you on the podcast. Welcome.
Thank It is such you. a joy to meet you and be able to have this conversation with both of you. So why don't you Yeah. just start out telling us a little bit about yourself and about McKay Africa?
I had a career in the fashion industry and I came on a safari with the Sierra Club. It had nothing to do with photography. 20 years ago last month, and three days into that safari, I said, I'm going to be a wildlife photographer and I'm going to live a year of my life in Kenya. It's been an absolutely amazing journey. One filled with absolute challenges, tear jerking, crying, wanting to quit. So many times I can't even tell you. But here I am living in Kenya and I have been doing photography in Kenya now for 20 years and I never expected this or to be owning my own ground operations company in Kenya. So it's been quite a journey. Thank you. Tell us a little bit about your safari company.
company.
So I started as a photographer. I did not know anything about photography. In fact, as a photographer. I did not know anything about photography. In fact, I've always been creative and anything I did as a hobby, I made a business. It was crazy. I was actually a garment. Okay. Me too. Me too. Okay. It's just
Me too. Me
just like, I'm going to make candles. And it's like, now I need to sell them. Now I need to get a business license. Now I'm going to open a store. Yeah, yeah, yeah. sell Now I need to get a business them. Now I'm going to open a license. yeah. store. Yeah, yeah, Artists, we go off on the deep end. That's, I guess, who we are in our souls. And I was a fashion designer. I made my first garment when I was seven years old. I came from a really small family. And I was told that, bye-bye mom, I will buy you one piece of fabric at a time. And I was told that, bye-bye, mom, I will buy you one piece of fabric at a time. And I started sewing my own clothes when I was seven. So I thought I was born to be a fashion designer. And 10 years into that career, I became a textile designer. And then, as notorious as it is, of course, I was so burnt out. And I had an opportunity to go to Africa with the Sierra Club. Hiking was my release. I was always kind of a tomboy. And off I went to Africa. And I had received a list of, I needed a 300 millimeter lens. I think I owned every DVD on Africa.
every DVD on Africa. I read every book. I wanted to see lions in the wild. So I got this list. I should say I actually even lived with a photographer and never even looked at an image. I was a designer. They wore all these cameras. They had all this equipment. It was absolutely disgusting. So this was the last thing I was going to do. But I got a list and it said 300 millimeter lens. So I went down to the local camera store and I said, I'm going to Africa. It says I need a 300 millimeter lens. But I said, I'm going to Africa. I want to take great pictures of lions. I need a camera and a 300 millimeter lens. Show me what I need. They actually asked me, what kind of camera are you familiar with? And I like what kind do you have that's my idea not gonna limit it meant nothing to me but when they said the word canon well that was familiar to me because we had canon color copiers that we used often and frequently in the fashion world brand recognition always very Brand recognition. Always very important. Yeah. Right. So I bought this camera and off I went. I didn't really read the itinerary like so many people don't. And three days into the safari, I said, I'm going to be a wildlife photographer and live a year of my life in Africa. It was incredibly powerful. And I've been on this crazy journey ever since. Because I was in the fashion industry and quite at the top of my game in the masses, we sold the masses, I came back to Africa every chance I had, usually two or three times a year, and worked on my photography. So let me make the long story short. I started running safaris, which was pretty amazing back then as a female on a continent and a pretty dominated male field and even more so here, but nothing was going to stop the passion. It was beyond anything I ever experienced and that I hope you're going to experience. There's no cure for this disease. There's no rehab for it. I can't wait till you step foot on this continent and in my home of Kenya.
small group photographic safaris, and I still did, for probably about 12 years. And I spent about 50% of my time in Kenya. The diversity here of species, of wildlife, of tribes is like nowhere else on the continent of 54 countries. And I've been to many of them.
Well, that's great because we're going to jump into that, I think, in just a few minutes. We want to talk to you about the different places that we're going to visit. And I imagine there you're going to talk to us about a bunch of different species that we'll see. But one thing before we get into that is you're in a very unique location right now. And so we can see you on video
so we
as we're having this conversation. And it looks like you're in a treehouse or something.
I am. I actually live in a really small thatched roof treehouse in the middle of Nairobi, believe it or not. I was fortunate when I decided to take the jump and start McKay Africa, which is actually a full tour ground operations company here in Kenya with our own safari vehicles and with all my logistics behind me. I decided to do that and I got lucky on an Airbnb and needed to be in the country longer than expected because I kind of jumped out without any plans doing this decision. I have a feeling you might be the same in your journey. And it just so happened that a couple of the tree houses here were full-time rentals and they were remodeling one. This used to be a top-end camp in the middle of Nairobi, and it was turned into full-time and Airbnbs. So I really got fortunate that I live in what I feel my life is, is in a camp in the middle of Nairobi, a really neat area and with a tree host with an actual thatched roof. And we think that's so
that's so important. And one of the reasons that we wanted to choose McKay Africa is that you are there on ground. And so, you know, you're not operating this remotely from some other destination. You're in country, you're right in the middle of everything every day. And so you know what's going on on a daily basis there.
Yes, I do. And I love it. I love being a couple hours away from everything. And it's interesting that I've spent so much time in Kenya for 20 years. And even just this year, I've taken two scouting trips. This is such a lush, rich environment of reserves and national parks and wildlife. And the safari world here is at the peak, the pinnacle of Africa, honestly. the pinnacle of peak, It's kind of like Africa, the godfather honestly. of And all the time, safaris. I'm constantly hearing of a new a new a camp, new area, a new photography reserve, hide being built. And what's great is I can get in my Land Rover and say, guys, we got to get out there for five days. And I'm gone. I'm on the road. We check everything. My staff has eaten at every restaurant in the area that I live in. Karen is probably the top destination to come to where everybody starts their safaris because it's so lush and so beautiful. And there's so many unique activities here and with the history of Karen Blixen. And I feel fortunate to live in the middle of all of it. Yeah, that is incredible. And so I guess to explain a
explain a little bit, there's different ways that people can book safaris. And before we get into our specific itinerary, is that what we will be doing is you guys don't own the camps. It's like you're saying these places already exist. And then we are more immersed, say, in with your guides and your vehicles. And then we just go and stay in those places, which is different from others, correct? That where you may book the places on the camp, they may own the land or they may take you into some of the reserves. I guess maybe explain a little bit about the difference between those types of safaris for people. Thank
you. Absolutely. We're actually considered a DMC, which is a destination management company, which means we manage all your logistics on the ground, including that we have our own safari vehicles. There's no conflict of interest and it's something we really take pride in at McKay Africa. We take you where you want to go. We let you tell us what it is that you want to see, what it is that you want to experience. We actually even have a list on our website that's really easy and you can check all the boxes. And that way we know what is your best interest. And we completely custom design without any conflict of interest the experience you want. If it is that our vehicles are going to be used, great. If it's a conservancy where our vehicles can't go into because it's really, really private, they only use their own vehicles with the camps, we fly you in. In fact, I think we have one of those on your trip. We have no conflict of interest. Our only goal is to give you the absolute best experience possible. And that's coming from my heart of 20 years of logistical experience here. Well, great.
Well, I'm excited. So why don't we jump into the trip that we're taking? And maybe you can just walk us through that itinerary and tell us what is it from your perspective and your experience that we're going to want to watch for, we're going to want to look for, and what we could expect in locations like where we're going to want to watch we're for, going to want to look and for, what we could expect in the locations like where we're staying?
Well, first I want to tell you that we're bringing you into a beautiful area of Cairn and you're staying at Makushla House. This is a very special, more of a B&B experience where you're more like a local and staying in somebody's home. Many of our photographers have used it. You're actually in walking distance from my house and my tree house. Oh. And it's in the architecture of out of Africa. So we start you in a very intimate setting. After that, when you wake up in the morning with the bird calls and the Kenyan coffee and the scrumptious breakfast, you're going to meet our team and they're going to drive you a short drive on Great Road. Yes, we do have tarmac roads. So we're going to drive you about three hours to one of my favorite places in Conservancy. I think all in Africa, and I have traveled across this continent. It's called Solio Ranch. It's a rhino sanctuary. You might see up to 30 rhinos, both black and white, on that drive. The owner, Kevin, grew up there as a child. It's very special. It is so incredibly beautiful, and on a lucky day, you're going to see Mount Kenya at that location. The yellow fever trees and a river running through it.
Oh, wow.
Yeah. And if that doesn't steal your heart, after seeing all the rhinos, we are then going to whisk you away to Samburu. Now going to Samburu, again, it's only a three to four hour drive. So we do want you to see the different environments as you change and drop into a very barren area. So the environment will change quite drastically. So the environment will change quite drastically, and there you will see the rich red soil and the iconic I Dream of Africa. It has got the northern big five. You will see reticulated giraffe. You will see the red elephants. You will see the Somali ostrich. You're lucky you're going to see the mainless lions. Your tents are stunning. You have a plunge pool on your deck overlooking the Iguazu-Niara River, where the elephants come down and many of the elephants take water every day. Water is life, right? So this is a very special, special environment. You can see all of the big five there. I I interrupt for just one second? When you say the big five.
just one second? When you say the big five.
Except the rhino. Sorry, except the rhino. But we've already checked that off with your first visit to Solio Ranch. Yeah. When you say the
you say the big five, just for our listeners, what are you referring to?
Well, if I must say, the big five back in the day was the Big Five of dangerous animals to hunt. As wildlife photographers, we've actually redefined what the Big Five are. But that is a different blog for a different day or vlog, right? It was originally termed by the hunters, in which there has not been any hunting here since 1968. In 1963, Kenya received its independence, and in 1968, they stopped all hunting. But back in history, the Big Five were the leopard, the lion, rhino, elephant, and Cape buffalo, because they were the most dangerous to hunt. There was initiative several years ago as wildlife photographers, and we changed what the Big Five represents today. But in Kenya, because once you cross the equator,
you have completely different species of animals. And I will say you're going to have the opportunity to see three different species of giraffe, two different species of zebra, multiple species of many other animals. And I want to leave some of it as a surprise. But that is another thing that makes Kenya incredibly special. I think we have more subspecies than any other country in Africa or that remain visible on a safari.
So you said we'll be crossing the equator. We will. Neat, because we did that a couple of years ago when we went to Quito, Ecuador, on our way to the Galapagos.
Awesome. So you know the water turns differently, right? We do. Especially if
if you pour it differently into a
bowl. It isn't magic, but let's keep the romance in it, right? Yes. From there, we're going to fly you to the Maasai Mara, which is one of the greatest reserves in all of Africa.
And I think that's one thing that people think of when they think of going on safari, right? Especially in Kenya is having a chance to visit there.
And I think
The Maasai Mara. There is not another big cat reserve in all of Africa or anywhere in the world that can top it. not another big cat reserve in all of Africa or anywhere in the world that can top it.
is not
I actually just returned last week. And as we the say, Mara never disappoints. And I think last week it over delivered. It is where the great migration happens. Now you're not there at that time of year.
And that's probably a good thing because, you know, you're not alone in wanting to witness that, which means it can be a full opportunity. You're going at one of my favorite times of the year. So you're staying actually in a very beautiful camp. And in that camp, you will overlook the Mara River. You can just sit there and watch the wildlife all around you and hear the roar of the mighty Mara
River. So I think I saw on a video that here you'll see the crocodile as well. Yes, you
will. And they are bigger than our vehicles. Oh, wow.
Amazing. Scott, don't go swimming. you won't make it i promise you makes those little
alligators on our beach seem tiny yes yeah they're enormous and in
enormous and in fact i think you might be surprised at the size of elephants we We know they're big, right? But when you see photographs of the elephants that are actually bigger than your vehicle, it's a powerful perspective. They are my favorite animals, the behavior. Our team
is compiled of all silver-rated guides, so they're very knowledgeable. Any question you want answered, they can answer it. Flora, Flana, you will be with multiple drivers. So once you get to the Mara, because you're flying, you'll have a different member of our team. And they all come from different cultural and tribal backgrounds. And we feel that is a big part of your safari experience.
Great. Yeah, we're really looking forward to that.
So then I think we whisk you away and you're going to be flown to Amboseli, home of the large herds of elephants. And there we have selected for you to be in a private conservancy, which shares an invisible border with Amboseli National Park. And what this does for you and what we do at McKay Africa to emphasize again, we want the best experience for you. Not putting you in locations where only our drivers can go, not booking you into where we own camps or manage portfolios, where from my absolute heart of 20 years of my boots on the ground, you are going to have the most incredible experience that we can provide for you. You will be staying in a luxury tented camp, the only camp in this conservancy. When you cross into the national park, you won't even know it. It will be seamless. It shares an invisible border. From your rooms, you will see Mount Kilimanjaro. When you're in the conservancy, you will have off-road access. You will be able to drive side by side with these elephants and these herds of elephants. And in special circumstances, you might be able to alight from your vehicle. You will share special sundowners at night and talk about your experiences before you go back to camp. On the foothills of Mount Kilimanjaro. As you watch the herds of elephants return to the hills and tuck in for the night, you will also witness this behavior in Samburu. Elephants tuck in for protection at night into the hills and they come down to the water source. In Amboseli, they line up in herds so they might, you know, graze their way through. And all of a sudden, once they hit a certain area, the matriarch will lead them, and they will get in a single format and come all the way down to the water source. It will be magical beyond your expectations. This I can promise you i'm
in tears just listening to you because like the the way that you describe is like if you try to read about this it's not the same you know it's not the same emotion and the fact that you've witnessed this so many times and just your description i'm just i'm already in So 20
years, my heart still races every time I'm out there. That is no joke. It is no myth. It is no sales pitch. It's magic. It sells itself, right?
Well, this is why everyone has told us you never go on just one safari. You never go on just one safari. Is you go on your first safari. You go on your first safari.
I hope that our team at McKay who Well, is so excited. Africa, so, You we've know, been working on this, at least what, a year? Right. It's the prep of that. It's working with you guys. It's designing the itinerary. It's the excitement. And then now we're on final preparations, right? I think the team has sent out your final trip details, your pre-departure letter. And now we can't wait to what we call is receive the golden packages.
Yeah. So we were telling you before we started recording is my two aunts are coming with us. They're both widowed and they had told us
at Christmas time, I guess last year, we had already booked the experience with you and we told them what we were doing. And they both said, oh, you know, your uncle and I, both of them said this, your uncle and I wanted to do this, but we never had an opportunity to. And so we just looked at them and said, well, do you want to go? Here's your opportunity. And they were like, are you kidding? It's like, no, come on, come go with us. And so they're going to be joining us and they are so excited. I believe, you know, we're, we're what a month and a half, a little more than a month and a half out from the safari. I think they've already packed their bags. They are so excited about this.
I think it is, you know, on most people's bucket list. So I commend you for inviting them. For me, the experiences I've had, and especially before all the modernization, is that my hope is everyone can have an African safari in a very special way. And that's how come I've gone through so many challenges in starting McKay Africa. It has not been easy. I know we talked about it earlier but again our mission is not to own camps or have portfolios but to individually work with everyone on what they want out of a dream safari and try to deliver it the best way we can so when you it is, you're crying when you get on the plane.
Before we even get on the plane.
I had you at hello.
hello.
Well, so we wanted to ask you, you know, what are some of the most frequently asked questions that you get about booking a safari?
Oh my goodness. Wasn't prepared for that question. Well, or this, because you've
you've mentioned, like, specific to ours and how you customize it to what people want.
First question that a lot of people ask is, is it safe? I mean, it's a mysterious place. People are coming from around the world. It's somewhere they don't know. We have all these animals. And then, you know, let's be honest, all our media these days and 20 years later, here I am. And I'm with the animals all the time. And the other side of it is that I'm also a tribal photographer in Africa. The other side of it is that I'm also a tribal photographer in Africa. So I go into extremely remote areas on which I feel more safe than most places in the world. And I think it also just stems from the excitement of lions, leopards. Like, are we okay in the vehicle? And what are we supposed to wear? And is it cold there? I mean, it's so hot. Do we just wear tank tops? And I love that. I mean, we're in winter right now. So I had my heater on this morning and then I had my fan on this afternoon. It's very pleasant here for the most part. And all those details we prepare everybody for. I love that it's such a mysterious place that people ask these simple and innocent questions. I'm sure you had them like this on your own, even though you're well-traveled. Well, probably still as
probably still as we, you know, as we pack for this, but I think that is one thing that travel and especially travel to Africa and travel on a safari, like it stretches you, right? It stretches you to, you know, and have that new experience. What is the weather going to be like? How are we going to dress? Like, you know, do I need bug spray? Do I need sunscreen? You know, like just all those things. Oh, exactly.
Oh, exactly. And what kind of shots do we need? And we prepare you for all that. I will say you don't need any to come to Kenya. And if you want later, we can do another podcast on that of, you know, boring, like requirements and, and those kinds of things. But I've really never been sick here. I've been here for 20 years.
Yeah, that's a great question. And Melissa and I were talking about that because we're going to leave the safari and go to South Africa. And I was telling her my understanding is that it's not Kenya that has those requirements. It's other African countries that have certain requirements in place around things like the yellow fever vaccination and stuff like that.
Correct. It's crossing borders. You know, I mean, I lived here through the pandemic and I lived here through the Ebola scare. And Africa is used to this. They react quickly. Should I say professionally? Is that the way? And I enjoyed a very wonderful life in the last four years. Because things... Can I
say what a horrible place to have to hunker down during the pandemic?
Hopped in my Land Rover and out to the wild I went. But not to make light of that, but I'm just saying in our recent floods, which many people may have heard about, we had this El Nino that was supposed to hit in November and and it hit us hard Jan, Feb, March, April, and we had floods in the Mara. The whole thing is, we are Safari Central. 20 minutes from my house is Private Wilson Airport, in which you guys will be flying back into. The amount of private aircraft and helicopters is absolutely mind-blowing. And all hands are on deck. And it's deployed in a second. I feel safer here. And I know when something happens, everybody steps up. Everybody in the safari world. We are like an enormous family. And every resource is used. Because when somebody gets used because when somebody gets stuck, when somebody gets flooded, the next time it's going to be us. We step up, we deploy, we react quickly and safety is at the highest level here in Kenya. And it's one reason I absolutely love living here. My doors open, I drive around, I feel safe. Yeah, that's
incredible. Just all of that, but especially like you mentioned, just the preparedness. People not only know what to expect and how to react, but then just helping each other out. I think that's incredible. to expect and how to but then react, just help helping each other I think that's out. incredible. So let's go back instead of maybe frequently asked questions. Let's also ask, what would people ask of you guys, right? You're, you were starting to inquiry about the safari because you mentioned everything was catered toward what we wanted to do in our interest. So how would people even begin to have that conversation to know what do I even want to experience?
Well, from so many years in tourism here and running my own safaris, when I started McKay Africa four years ago, I built a website that made it really easy. We have an inquiry page on McKay Africa. And when you check it, we simply ask you, you know, your name, your email, these things so we can contact you. But then we have boxes that are so easy to check. What services would you like? And we start with, I would like to be met when I came off the airplane. I'm okay to be met when I get out of customs. I'm okay to drive four hours on tarmac roads. I want to fly to all my destinations. We have a sense of what you're looking for really quickly just by the services you're asking. We go into safari activities and we host a lot of families as well as photographers and photographic groups. I work with a lot of tour leaders that bring their groups. So we designed activity boxes and you check, I want to do photography. I want to do photography hides. I want to do aerial. I would like to know more about conservation while I'm there. I want to relax and enjoy nature with my friends and family. I want to do yoga. Then we're going to take you out to the coast. We're hosting a family of 16. They're going to spend two days on the coast at the end of the year doing the dows on the Indian Ocean. Ah, it's so beautiful so we we really make this easy and then you proceed to let us know your budget we are more of an upper market luxury and that's where we have our contacts because that is the market i've served for a long time but we can also refer so we have a box where you can check your budget within like $2,000, right? And then are you traveling with children? Yes, no. How many? And from that, like maybe five minutes or less of that initial inquiry, we honestly have such a good sense. My team is on the ground. We go out. I've been here 20 years. Then we usually will send you an email and with a few questions. And then we're going to send you two to three quotes. Those quotes are going to hit your bottom of your budget and your high budget. And if we really feel there's something special and extraordinary, we're going to say, if you can stretch your budget, here's what we would like you to think about. Our team tries to respond when 24 to 48 hours, Monday through Saturday, always Mark. I will say who you guys have, have had lots of conversations with Mark.
And he is great by the way.
the way. Yes. He'll jump on a zoom He'll call. wake up in the middle way. He'll Yes. jump on a Zoom call. He'll wake up in the middle of the night. He'll what's up you. He is like, this is his passion. This is what he was born to do. And I'm so blessed to have him. Yeah. And you can you can
And you can you can tell that. I think that's incredible because I think people probably if it's their first safari, they have no idea what to ask. Right. So you kind of guiding them. And then like you keep and I think mentioning, that's so important that you guys are there, like you're the ones who know these places and can immediately, like as you read through these responses, you can immediately say, they oh, would enjoy this. The kids would like this. This would be a good, I think that is incredible. is incredible thank
thank you i mean it really is our passion we love africa and we can tell yes and we can tell and in the field all the time and we just want to share our joy and passion with really both of you we can't wait to host your aunt and you and just everyone that wants to come on a safari.
Go ahead. No, just
Go ahead. No, just it seems to be a special bucket list item. And I feel like I've been blessed to live it every day in the best way possible. And now I have a way to give back ethically and with the best intentions and helping other people's dreams happen. And that's what we're about at McKay Africa. We're a big family.
I think that's a great mission. How far in advance do people typically need to start the inquiry process and planning?
I think it's good to plan well in a year in advance. You know, we work with multiple markets. Because I'm a photographer, we work with tour leaders that bring their clients here. They need to be booking probably two years in advance. But like with you guys, you started at least a year in advance, right? You start thinking about it. And you should, as much as we would love to help everybody come on a safari, you should try different options and you should think about it and you should plan about it. It's a big investment. It's a big decision. And it's the number one bucket item with a lot of people. There's a lot of expectations with that. And so you should do your research. You should see. We have, may I say, we have a win and wear page on our website as well at mckayafrica.com, where you can start looking at where are the places I want to go? Do you want to do conservation? And we show you a bunch of that. We show you the camps you might want to stay at and start, you know, it's kind of like getting ready for the party, right? You want to enjoy that part of it also as much as possible. And you
do. And they say that planning and the expectation of a trip and preparing is just as important, you know, as the actual travel itself.
travel itself. If I can, I'd like to share. We have a very special family coming of 16 people. people. And they gave an assignment to everyone to do a research and presentation on something in Kenya. And they've shared with us their preparation of the children doing presentations on coffee and elephant. It's just fabulous. I mean, for so many people, this is a bucket trip of a lifetime. Give yourself every bit of time to not be so stressed. Plan it. Enjoy it. Dream it. Make it happen. Enjoy the ride from the moment you decide to come until the end.
What a great soundbite.
Yeah, that is. That is great. And Scott's probably paid you extra to tell me that, right? Like, Mel, you need to get on this. Don't wait till the last minute. I love that. What a great soundbite. I'm like, oh, I did good. So one of the things that we
I did good. So one of the
things that we like, or I usually ask Melissa when we do a destination episode, is what should we pack? a destination episode is what should we pack? So at a high level, you know, you don't have to get down to the detail, but at a high level, what should people pack when they're going on a safari? Because we hear some really conflicting information, especially around colors.
Well, we're going to be in nature, right? And we're going to be with animals that are in nature. And we want to be observers to that. So neutral colors in every way are always best so that you blend into the environment. There's so many great, easy, lightweight travel clothes. Khakis, greens,
off-white, not white. I wear white. It's bad. The animals react to it. No, but it also reflects sun from my skin. So I do, I've toned down. I wear like a, you know, an off-white shirt. No bright colors because they really don't belong in nature. At night, when you're sitting around the fire and you're having that sundowner and that cocktail and going to dinner, be bright. Be yourselves. Take off your field clothes and enjoy the setting of dinner. But neutral colors, easy to wash clothing. Most comms provide laundry services and lodges. And even if it costs more, it's very little. What you're investing on a safari, put in your budget, the 40 extra dollars, make it easy on yourself. You put the clothes out that night, they return them the next day, let them wash them. You know, you just don't want the bright colors. the next day, let them wash them. You know, you just don't want the bright colors, not when you're in nature, but once you get back to the lodge with everybody, then wear your African colors and be in Africa. And you mentioned heater in the
heater in the morning, and I know that for right now, so heater in the morning, fan in the afternoon, so layers, I assume you need
some. Yes, I was going to say layers is always good, lights, fleece, something that protects from the wind. I mean, I go out in the morning with this fleece. I have a shirt on like this. I have a tank on like this, right? Or actually the shirt's probably wrapped around my waist. And then I layer up and down throughout the day. So it makes it very easy and very comfortable. Usually nice warm safari blankets in your vehicles as well. So they take care of
they take care of us. Talk to us about like shoes and hats, things like that. Hats is
necessary. You want a hat. You want to shield yourself from the sun, just like you would anywhere in the world, right? Protect yourself from the sun. Put on your sun block. For ladies, if your hands are going to be out, it's always good to wear those gloves. Doing photography like I do just to protect your skin. But nothing probably that you wouldn't do in your own home country to shield yourself from the sun. Tennis shoes is fine. You're not going to be doing a lot of hiking unless it's in your itinerary. Next stop for you guys, it might be Gorillaz. And then we'll talk about a different clothing list.
One question I had for you is a lot of the lists I've read said you need to bring binoculars. Do we need to bring those or is that something you have in your vehicles? Do we need to bring those or is that something you have in your vehicles?
we can supply them in our but our guides will No, be spotting on that wildlife vehicles, and you won't miss a beat. If you want to join in the then have your binoculars. spotting, yes, And I guess that depends on if you're viewing or photographing or what it is that you want out of your safari. So if you want to have binoculars to be viewing all the time, then yes, it's good that you have your own personal ones. It's probably like if you and Melissa were going to share. How does that work?
Yeah. No, that's...
that's... Well, because we are
Well, because
are bringing camera. That's what I was just thinking about.
That's what I was just thinking about. I'm thinking about the weight of my camera gear and stuff like that. So adding binoculars is just another way that I didn't have to carry it. We have binoculars.
We have binoculars. And again, that would be from company to company. But all guides also have binoculars and they'll hand them back to you in two seconds.
Great.
Anything else you can think of that people may not think of that you would need to pack?
No, we supply water bottles, water. I think everything's pretty taken care of to the best of our ability.
When we have read, no plastic bags in Kenya. So making sure that is not in your luggage.
Correct. You shouldn't have it in your luggage. And actually, Rwanda was the one that started that about eight years ago, and it's been incredibly successful. And Kenya followed suit. Now, if you have, like when you're traveling and you have to have those small incidentals in plastic bags, don't worry about that. You're not going to be stopped coming into the country. stopped coming into the country. It's just we've tried to really stop the pollution of any single plastic bags, kind of like what you have at the grocery
you have at the grocery store. That's excellent. Living at the beach, we totally understand why that is so necessary. We see it on a day-to-day basis.
Yeah, it's made a huge difference, a massive difference. And we use these really lightweight cloth bags for our groceries. And we have never resorted back to heavier plastic bags like they have in California, if I may say that. But yeah, no, that's not okay here. And all the camps have water that will be provided for you. And we provide you with amazing water bottles. You do not need to bring those. They're dual plane. I've tested them out in the hottest hot and the coldest cold, and they're fabulous. And they're always filled to the top with you guys. Whether you want cold water or warm water, not a problem in these water bottles.
Great. Well, we do have three final questions for you. And this is how we end all of our interviews. The first is, and I can't wait to hear the answer to these because I think they're going to be spectacular. But what is your favorite place in the world that you've ever visited? Now, we know you live in the most spectacular place, and I think we understand that. But is there somewhere else that you've visited that you say, hey, this might actually be among the top of my list?
Snow Leopard in India. Okay.
Going back next year, the Himalayas. It's very out of my element, but it was so far beyond my expectations that I'm doing it one more
time. Well, Northern India is on our list of places. Funny enough.
That valley, it's beyond. Funny enough, when we get back from our safari,
back from our safari, I leave almost a week later going to India. But Melissa said, why don't you just stay? With clue bags
stay? With clue bags
there, but for work. Yeah, going for work.
Yeah, going for work.
Not the same.
But sometime I want to take Melissa to India. I've been a few times myself, but I said, when we go back, I want to go to Northern India. So snow leopard is definitely something then that we should put on our bucket list.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely. Lifetime experience.
Well, I think that says it then. Well, then what's left on your bucket list?
Well, I think that a bucket list gets redefined as you learn and explore more, right?
Yes, you just added towers.
just added towers. I will say that next year, and I just sent out a blog post about it, I'm going to the Congo. And that's the Republic of Congo. For those people that don't know, they say Congo and they go, no, it's like North Korea and South Korea. I'm going to the South Korea version one of the most pristine areas more than a photograph and experience as I say it's not even I don't even care if I take a photograph and I'm a photographer I can't wait to be in the Congo next year and then when I'm in the Congo, I'll be meeting with guides and guides that have experience in that type of the world, part of the world, right? And they're going to say, oh, Piper, next you have to go to Gabon. It's like Gabon, you know, or next you have to see the tribes in South Sudan, right? So I think a bucket list evolves as you allow yourself to explore this unbelievable, phenomenal world we live in, which is changing so quickly. So go, do, be, jump out, take the risk, you know, explore, and then the next destination opens up itself to you in unexpected ways. destination opens up itself to you in unexpected ways.
Yeah. Ours constantly seems to evolve as we talk to more and more people. It's like, Ooh, we got to add that to our list. yeah.
So, well, and then as once you, and like you said, I want you to spirit one, right? Then you, I mean, it's never going to be fulfilled. Like, right. It's always going to be this growing list. You, you want to see and explore and do more. And I think that's amazing.
In a very healthy way. It's not like buying the new couch or the new house.
That's right. Yeah. We say we're creating memories. And that's the whole reason for our podcast is to really document our experiences. Yes, we can help people with their travels and to give them ideas and to inspire them. But really, when we did this, we said we were going to do it for the purpose of documenting our experiences in our own voices so that, you know, years from now, our kids, our grandkids, their kids, you know, can hear those experiences in our own voices. And if no one else ever listened, we have that. we've got quite Thankfully, a few people who listen. So that's been a blessing. you But, know, it was really about documenting this with our own voice.
own voice. And that is so needed. So thank you. And what a privilege to have me on and what a privilege that you found us and what a privilege that we're going to host you in Kenya. Thank you.
So one last question, but I think you might have just answered it, is where are you going next?
Well, honestly, next I'm going to Uganda and Rwanda, but it's one of them. And then deep into Ethiopia, where I've been going for 14 years to the tribes there. I think you guys need to do a tribal expedition. Well, I'm
sure. Like you said, it's one of those things you don't just
one of those
of those things you don't just do it once.
Right. I mean, but you hear something. And I think that's what we're all talking about. Like, also, it's not just a bucket list. It's a list that gets you to explore and see and view and feel the world differently. And on that magical experience, you're exposed to so many different things. And Melissa, you as an artist, as we kind of get into that, you just kind of like go, whoop, whoop, whoop. Right? Yes. And Scott knows that all so well. And so
that all so well. And so Piper, because if people, you keep saying wildlife photographer, but like you also mentioned, if we go to your Instagram, for example, it is mostly people.
If you go to my Instagram page now, yes, at Piper McKay, it is, I'm getting ready to launch what has taken me probably 20 years. And that is my limited edition fine art collections in infrared. It's a very special body of work. It's taken many years. If you go to my Facebook, you'll see something completely different. And if you go to McKay Africa, so I guess the best way to say it's one brand and three companies. So different platforms lend themselves to different things. And if you go to my personal Piper underscore McKay, you'll see my infrared fine art photographic work that is mostly tribal. Yes. And I'm just in the process of launching 20 years of work.
And so I think that's what's so neat is because then you bring in. So you have the nature, but then you have the animals, but then you have the people who live there. And with your company, like you have that intimate, you know, day in and day out of helping people experience the place that you love so much too. So I think that's interesting that you are able to merge all of that, right? It's not just about the place. It's not just about the animals and it's not just about the animals and it's not just about the
people. Yeah. Three days in, I fell in love. Well, we can close
close up, but where would our listeners be able to find you and find McKay Africa?
Well, McKay Africa is that easy. www.mckayafrica.com and it's spelled M-A-C-K-A-Y, Africa. And that is the company that will be hosting you. My own personal fine art photography work, that's at www.pipermckay.com. And to see the photo safaris that I still lead, some personally, which is photographic safaris, small group, upper market, unique locations. That's actually still at PiperMcKayPhotography.com. Soon that will be Piper McKay Photo Safaris, which is already rebranded on the site itself. So that's why I said it's one brand and three companies. After 20 years, I just keep going.
And I will link all those. And then I'll also like just keep an eye on it. So as things change. Yeah.
For organizing safaris, that is McKayAfrica.com. Like my shirt being branded and that's what we're doing for you guys and if they want to see my personal work that's separate if you want to link those i do highly encourage people to go and check that out though your
encourage people to go and check that out though your work is absolutely gorgeous yeah
yeah absolutely beautiful thank you so much for joining us what an amazing discussion there's one in time where I
there's one in time where I thought we were going to have to pause the interview and recollect ourselves. As Piper was describing, watching the elephants as they move from the hills down to the river. And you can understand why she fell in love on her very first safari, picked up her life and moved there. Her passion is really overflowing.
Yeah, I think there was one point where we were both literally in tears. And one thing I think that we should probably share is that as we chatted with Piper about every, what would you say, 30 minutes, 15, 20 minutes, 15 15 20 minutes okay about every 15 or
minutes okay about
about every 15 or 20 minutes that the her internet would basically drop and so she said she warned us like this is going to happen and so just hang on like i'll drop off and then i'll just rejoin and it's so interesting that that's that's just a way of life right right? And I just thought it was interesting. So Scott has gone back and edited, and so you won't know that. But just so that you have that perspective, that that was the experience that we had when chatting with her as she was on the ground in Kenya.
But she gets to live in that amazing treehouse.
Yes.
So I think we're going to have to put some of that up on social media or something so that people can see part of this interview since we're pretty much audio only in our podcast.
For sure. So, Melissa, what
what was it like listening to her and digging into the details of this trip that we're taking, you know, a few weeks from now? that we're you taking, a few weeks know, from now.
It's interesting because I really have not wanted to like dig in like so much just so that I could just experience right? it, Like if you're planning the trip, like you are literally the one who, like you've looked at this hotel and you've looked at all the hotels that you're picking and you've, you know, booked restaurant reservations and you kind of, you know, have a game plan. And so you have done all that for over a year, talked to these different safari companies, looked at different itineraries, looked at different options, really thought about what it is that we want to do. And so I really, I just kind of wanted to like not dig into that and look at every single detail. And so I don't know. Because you
Because you would have probably changed all the details.
No, no, no, no. Just, just to, I don't know. Sometimes it's nice to just be surprised and just show up, especially if you're the one who doesn't always, you know, get to do that. And you're thinking through timetables and you know, which hotel that you're picking. And so it is really super exciting. I mean, we're not kidding when we say there were several times, like just the way that she described it. And I hope you felt the same way listening. Just tears in her eyes, though, like her description of what it's going to be like.
When we first started talking about this, we weren't 100% sure if we wanted to do Antarctica or the safari first. And we talked about it on the podcast. You know, we interviewed our friend Kathy back in episode 10 and we kind of teased going back and forth at that time as we were trying to just nail down in our minds is where are we going to do the safari first or where are we going to do Antarctica? Because both of those are really high on our bucket list of going to do the safari first or where are we going to do Antarctica? Because both of those are really high on our bucket list of things to do. Yeah, they
definitely are. And we're going to do both. But we always truly knew that we wanted to do a safari. I think safari is one of those bucket list of bucket list. So this trip actually
started with a group of friends that we traveled to the Galapagos with. And while we were in the Galapagos, we were having such a great time and everybody was really jazzed about it. And we said, okay, well, you know, hey, check off the bucket list here. What's next? And I said I said oh I'll plan a safari and so they were actually going to come and go with us on it it didn't turn out that they were able to join us but our my aunts actually now are going to go on this trip with us so my aunt Rita and Aunt Brenda you know we were talking to them at Christmas last year, and I think we've told the story on the podcast, but we, you know, we're talking about going on this trip and they both kind of said, hey, we always wanted to go, you know, with your uncle, right? So each of them said this. We had planned about it, planned it. We had talked about it, but we just never executed. And so Melissa and I said, why don't you guys come and go with us? Because we had already booked the safari. We'd already kind of said, you know what, if no one else goes, we'll just book the whole safari, Melissa and I, and we'll just have it private to the two of us.
Well, and we should add that you had already like talked to them about, hey, we may have these other people. What does that look like? And so it was not a big deal to then go say, oh, actually, we're going to have these two other people. So like kind of knowing that I think helps not, okay, everything is booked up. So they kind of knew it's not a big deal to add two more people to our
So like
group. Yeah. And so basically it was just adding another room because we had booked a private safari vehicle through there and so that was the only thing that was going to change is making sure that the places the camps that we were going to stay at had room and matter of fact I think one of the camps didn't have enough room and so they altered our safari a little bit to a different camp and that's one of the things that I think I really like about McKay because if we had gone with the safari a little bit to a different camp. And that's one of the things that I think I really like about McKay, because if we had gone with the safari company that owns the lodges, well, they would have just said, well, that's not possible because we don't have space.
And then you have to move weeks and all that kind of stuff. That's true. Yeah. So we're also going to be doing something else while we are there. That has always been on my bucket So be sure to list. stay else while tuned. we are there that has always been on my bucket list. So be sure to stay tuned. Yeah, we did talk
Yeah, we did talk about it on the interview. And so we'll leave that as a little bit of a surprise. We'll make sure to call that out in the future, you know, what it is that we did. But it's something that's just absolutely epic. So we're looking forward to that.
And Scott, we are still going to go to Antarctica. That's right. So we're still in the early planning stages, but we also want to invite you to come with us. That's
right. We want all of our listeners to come and go with us. The more, the merrier. And you know, while we were down in Puerto Rico, we talked to a company to kind of kick off the idea of doing the trip with them. And so those conversations have started. They asked us to give them a few weeks to get back, get settled in and those type of things. But we are earnestly starting the planning phases now for this trip. And go ahead and mark it on your calendars. We're looking at January of 2026. So that's going to give you a little over a year to get ready and get prepared for that trip. We will try to get the details of it out as quickly as possible, but we want all of you to come and go on that with us. I want Antarctica to be my seventh continent.
Because it is for most people.
Yeah. And I am missing two continents right now. Well, rather, after this trip. After the trip to Africa, I'll be missing two continents. And that's Australia and Antarctica. So next year, we have to fit Australia in. And what I was thinking is, if we
this trip. After
thinking is, if we can tie in somewhere in Asia for you, that will allow both of us to be going to our seventh continent together. Yes. Yes. So we do have to hit Asia first because you've
to hit Asia first because you've been quite a few times. You're actually going back after our safari. Yeah. Like a week and
to hit
a week and a half after we get back from safari, I head to India. So that'll be quite an interesting turnaround there.
So now I really have to watch those flight deal alerts and make that happen.
Yes. So stay tuned. Listen, we will get those details out as soon as possible. But go ahead and mark it on your calendar so that you can go with us. Well, let's talk a little bit about the preparations that we're making right now, because really, this is how we go about going to a new place is we do our research. And part of talking to Piper today was part of our research. And then, you know, there's the preparation that goes along with it. And so for a trip like going to Africa, it's a little bit more than just booking your airplane and showing up there. Yes.
booking your airplane and showing up there. Yes. So a lot of these countries that you will probably travel to for safari, you're going to need some kind of visa. And so just looking into that and doing those preparations, I've learned that there's a couple of ways you can do them yourself, right? You can book a company to do them for you, which there's an extra cost involved. And you do have to be mindful when you book these visas that you go to the actual legitimate website. Right. And so just kind of doing some research, travel.state.gov, you go to international travel and then you can put in the country and it will tell you lots of good information. Like, do you need a visa? Here's the link to get that visa. A lot of them are now e-visas, but you just have to check how long does your passport have to be valid after you or when you're there. For example, a lot of these countries, you have to have six months more validity. So just be aware of that. So I kind of thought, okay, maybe tell people like when you get your new passport or if you haven't done this, like go look at your passport right now and see when does it expire and back up like nine months and say, OK, that's when I need to renew my passport. Go ahead and put that alert in your phone on your calendar because it's six months. Right. Then you're going to need some time to send it off. You know, maybe more than nine months, depending on how much comfort you have, but making sure that you do that. And then also that you need a certain number of the visa pages consecutive blank. And so just making sure that you have that as well. So Scott, you actually have a passport that has the bigger pages because you've had situations before where you've gone to, you know, done a lot of travel in a year or in several years, needed that. And I know a lot of people have talked about, oh, well, they don't stamp the passport anymore. But we still have run into a lot of instances where they do. And so I'm honestly like, oh, gosh, I need to make sure that like the first place that we go to, they don't, you know, put a stamp because I literally have enough pages in consecutive to do this trip just because we are doing Egypt and then Kenya and then South Africa. So just being aware of some of those things, I mean, you can use companies to, you know, get your visas. But then also like when we did the one for Kenya, I mean, it was like their website was really good. It is an e-visa when you get it. Like we got it back within, I don't know, within two days. You can actually put it in your Apple wallet. Really nice. But legitimately, and their website was good, but it still took me like an hour and a half, two hours just to do it. There was a few little quirky things. So just being aware of that, like don't wait till the last minute to do these visas. And some of them have a fee. You know, they're not free either.
know, within
And then, you know, we've been looking at things like packing. This trip's really important because we're going to be gone for about three weeks. However, we're very limited on the amount of weight that we can carry on to the aircraft with our baggage. And so, you know, we can't take a lot of stuff. And so, you know, we have things that we're going to need for the safari, the filled clothes, as she was talking about. But, you know, we're not going to be able to take a lot of other clothes along with it. As a matter of fact, my co-workers that we're going to meet in South Africa, I was talking to them earlier today, and I said, hey, just be prepared. You're going to see us in our field clothes because we're just not going to bring a bunch of extra stuff with us when we get there. Yeah. So it's not like we can just throw a bunch of stuff in a bag and take whatever you
we can just throw a bunch of stuff in a bag and take whatever you want, because literally they emailed us this week and said, how much do you weigh? And then they have some restrictions about how much your
they have
they have some restrictions about how much your bags, what size your bags can be and how much that they can weigh. And they sent us a great, you know, packing guide. So it's not like I can just bring everything that I, you know, yeah, everything we want to bring.
And also you can't take hard sided suitcases either.
Yeah. So that's one thing
that's one thing that, you know, doing a lot of the research and looking at packing lists and even the pre-trip letter that we got from McKay Africa, you know, it said no hard sided suitcases. So we're actually we just ordered last night a couple of new duffel bags from Patagonia. We've never used these. Melissa's going to do a rolling one. I'm just going to do one that can also be a backpack. And we're going to see how that goes. So we'll give more information and kind of a review of those when we get back. But we needed something that would potentially withstand a little bit of weather, a lot of dust, you know, out on the safaris when you're moving from one place to the other and things like that. So we decided after a lot of research that we would go with those Patagonia ones. And what did you say, Melissa? They're guaranteed for life?
They are guaranteed for life. Yeah. So they have a huge sustainability initiative, Patagonia does, about not, you know, wasting and, you know, just like, oh, I'll throw away this bag and get a new one. So I think you actually were watching a video and it said they have the largest repair facility in North America to to like, quickly try to get bags back to people because I mean, you got to think that people who travel like this are like the equipment can be rough on it. So so yeah, they're guaranteed for life. They'll fix it for you. And if they can't can be rough fix on it, it. So, so yeah, they're guaranteed for life. They'll fix it for you. And if they can't fix it, like they will, you know, send you a new one. And if you have trouble deciding about something. So I finally was like, okay, decision, fatigue, overload, whatever you want to call it. I finally just typed in chat GPT. I'm trying to decide between this bag and this bag, and I'm going on a safari in Kenya. Which one should I get?
I get? Looking at that, we have an appointment this week with Passport Health to go down and talk about all the things that we need to be aware of, you know, have conversations about which vaccines we necessarily have to have going into country or in our case, we're going to another country after leaving Kenya. And so understanding that from start to finish, talking to them, you know, things that we're going to need to take like antidiarrhea and antibiotic and those type of things that you just really need to have with you because when you're out on safari, it's not like you can just run to the pharmacy around the corner. And so, you know, we'll make sure to take all that with us and hopefully never need
it. Yeah. And also an eSIM. So we have always been like, oh, T-Mobile is great. It's not, it's a super affordable option. But this last trip to Europe, it just sort of fell short for us in terms of like the speed of the data, where we could use the data. So we're actually going to do an eSIM this time. And we're going to go with a GigSky eSIM. And so we'll report back on that.
Yeah, this will be our first trip with the GigSky eSIM. And so we'll come back and tell you how that went. Sky eSIM. And so we'll come back and tell you how that went. But we're pretty certain that this is exactly the solution that we're going to need going forward. You know, it's great because this is a product that you can use both when you're traveling on land as well as on cruises. And so you can get your cruise data through this at a much lower price than what they charge on the ship.
Yeah. So we're super excited to try them out. And just especially because we're traveling to so many different places. And you also don't have to do like an eSIM for this place and an eSIM for this place. And it's like so you get one eSIM and then you just basically kind of top up your data. So I think that makes it a really good option for us.
And we did our travel insurance earlier this year. So that's all in place. We did it for, you know, the rest of the calendar year. And so we already had that. But we have spent a lot of time with our aunts. They are traveling separate from us because they're not going to go and do Cairo on the front end and South Africa with us. We're going to meet up in Kenya. And they wanted to get over a few days early so that they could acclimate. And we're going to give them our tips on jet lag and get them to use that when they get into country so that they won't be suffering from jet lag. So about, you know, helping them find a place where they can stay for those first few days. And then they're actually going to go do some really cool activities that we're kind of jelly of. Yeah, we are. We're
like, oh, well, Kyra is going to be really cool, too. But OK, well, maybe Piper's right. We'll just have to come back. Yeah. And I think that's
And I think that's the thing is, you know, when you go to these amazing places like this, we say it all the time. You just have to be open to say, I can't do everything. And if there's something else that I really want to do, then we'll come back.
Yeah. And Scott, I really think this is just the beginning of what you're going to hear about this safari. We're going to have to do more episodes when we return from the trip so that we can share firsthand our experiences and stories. But I also think that if we can convince them to do so, I think that your aunts, like, I think they'll bring a completely different perspective to it, too, that will help a lot of people who maybe don't travel like we do. And as much as we do, stay tuned for that, because I think that's going to be helpful for people, too.
It's very surreal for us that this trip we've been planning for over a year now is just around the corner. We almost think of this like our hype reel just before the big trip. All the last minute preparations are going into place and as each day passes, we become more and more excited. Do you have a story of a big trip that you looked forward to for a really long time? Please share it with us at scottatsunshinetravelers.com. We're always inspired by your travel stories. We hope you enjoyed this episode and found some inspiration to help you with your travel journeys. If you could take a moment to leave us a review on your favorite podcast platform, it would be greatly appreciated. Your five-star reviews help us get discovered by others and possibly featured on your favorite platform. Don't forget to follow or subscribe to our podcast to get notified of new episodes as they are released. You can also find us on Instagram and Facebook at Sunshine Travelers Podcast. Remember, that is Travelers with one L. Most importantly, please share it with your friends to help them catch the travel bug. You never know, they may become your greatest travel companion.
